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Latest Updates from Our Project:
Photos of V3 Insert (& Tab) design
over 1 year ago
– Sat, Nov 23, 2024 at 11:49:00 AM
Hi folks, super quick update for you this week as I now have the hard copy of the V3 Insert in from the local printer and wanted to show you the results.
Apologies now for lack of focus at the back of some of these photos, the product is at the mercy of my photography skills I'm afraid!
Here are the Tabs for the double pokers - as a reminder the tabs sit behind the dividers and cover larger categories.
And the detail on the Scenario dividers shown in front of the tab. Note the colour now applied all across the top of the divider as per your suggestions.
The Occupation dividers.
And the Location dividers
Here is the equipment Tab with the Kit and Outfit Dividers in front of it. Note the Weapon Dividers would sit in this category too but seem to have been missed out of the print run on this occasion. I didn't want to lose another week though and thought I would share you the prototype 'as is'.
Recipes for storing your Potions and Preparation cards if you wish to do so.
Likewise the Resource Tab and the 'Other Small' Tab which you could file Knowledge and Shock under. Again please note the Shock divider was missed out on this occasion.
Events, Obstacles and Barriers.
Foes (lots of them!) Discoveries and Booby Traps, note the NB1/NB2 dual purpose Discovery divider.
Loot (by far the biggest category) and Scenario tools covering off all the other cards you would use to build your Adventures. Note the Plot divider which is 'multi set' as all your Plot cards are identical.
And this is what is looks like in the box!
All the tabs sit nicely above the dividers, the colour bands are indeed far easier to see and the category spacing means you are not swarmed with too many tabs, you can see what you need to very quickly.
We are currently adding these to peoples pledges as they are being requested (thanks for all the interest so far), if you want to add them please just reach out to us.
A big thank you from us with your help getting the V3 turned around in record time. With that done we can now get back to finalising everything else.
A few of you have (understandably) been asking for a revised timeline. Please bear with me a little longer before I get you something more scientific rather than a finger in the air. We have made enormous progress this week going through every single component in our proofing process. Now that we know it can all fit and you find everything easily we can begin to finalise everything with Whatz and get the files over to them.
We are trying to have the prep-press files assembled in December so we can get them off to Whatz. I need to see the revised .stl files for the inserts and some production proof copies also before we can push the final button but we really are very close now folks.
Wishing you all the best.
IG
Dividers Version 3 Rapid Prototype for feedback please
over 1 year ago
– Sat, Nov 16, 2024 at 07:40:36 AM
Hey folks, we always try to listen to you. We can't always keep everyone happy when there are over a thousand of you but when there are common themes and we can do something about it, we will do what we can if it is for the better of the project.
We took two common themes from your feedback from the other day about the V2 Dividers: 1 - make the colour run all the way along the dividers rather than just the side. 2 - If possible add in a tab system to sort make it easier to find card types quickly.
IMPORTANT CAVEAT - All of the stuff below is at rapid prototype stage, it is not professionally printed and remains subject to change and subject to confirmation from the manufacturer.
With this in mind we have come up with a V3 which uses a tab and divider system. By which I mean we will add a number of extra tab cards to the Dividers Sets which will help you to find cards by categories. The practicalities of these mean some different card types are bunched together where they are in an obvious family. Having played around with it, I believe the best tab family categories for you would be:
FOR POKER SIZED CARDS (In my prototype I use these in the left hand Character card trench) Outfit, Kit, Weapon Talent-Skill Talent-Weapon Recipe Small Cards
FOR POKER SIZED CARDS (In my prototype I use these in the right hand Adventure card trench) Event Obstacle Barrier Persona, Campaign, Plot, Clue Discovery Foe Booby Trap Loot
FOR DOUBLE POKER CARDS Reference Locations Occupations
Each of these Tabs will have multiple Dividers from different card sets in front of them.
The practical problem - Please see the diagram below, this is approximately what we are trying to get Whatz to deliver for us. The important number is the 120mm height of the orange trench from the base, this is the maximum height we have to play with in that space. We don't really want to change that if possible - it adds a lot more time to the project as we have to look at box designs etc. again.
So with this in mind what we have done is reduce the size of the V2 Divider you saw last time from 110mm to 102mm in height and we have created new tabs at 115mm height that help organise the categories. We have also tweaked the spacing in the title bars (there was extra space) to fit this all in. The picture below shows the V2 Divider on the left vs the vs Tab and Divider system on the right.
Caveat 1 - I only have a black and white printer at home and this is a rapid prototype so please note the v3 cards behind the Location card are in greyscale but will not be in the final version.
Caveat 2 - my steel rule is too big to fit in the light box so I have borrowed two small rulers from my girls for the photos - rainbows, unicorns and love hearts are not being added to the design...
These are the double pokers:
And the pokers:
Offset slightly so you can see how it would work but note the greyscale caveat please.
This image shows you the current insert prototype with category markers made out of old Location and Event cards. Note these are slightly too tall (they are above the trench) but they give you an idea where all the category tabs sit based on the list I give above:
Here I have placed two V3 Tabs and Dividers in the double poker section so you can see how it works. Note there would be additional Occupation and Location Dividers in front of each tab, this is just to give you an indication.
And the same same principal for the poker cards showing you how it would work for a Barrier tab then there would be multiple Barrier dividers in front of that, then the next category separated by a tab etc.
OK so those are the greyscale prototype shots. Here are the digital colour versions of the V3 prototype showing double poker at the top (tab and divider) then poker (tab and divider) at the bottom left and I have included two of the other poker dividers just to show the impact of having the set colour strip going all the way along.
We think moving the V2 Divider to the V3 format addresses the concerns/requests you raised on the last update, whilst also not playing around with the box size which I am really keen not to do. Next step for me is to get these locally printed in colour and show you the effect when they are all in place.
We can do this in parallel with the final proofing and insert work we are doing just now anyway (hence the adoption of the rapid prototype technique and showing you pretty rough mocks ups so quickly).
Hopefully that addresses any concerns and gives you the filing system which we believe the game merits. Do let us know what you think please.
I had a few a couple of queries also
1) yes of course if you have forgotten these or indeed any other product and want to add that to your pledge without incurring additional shipping we can sort that for you.
2) The upgrade kit you are getting upgrades all the components to the standard it needs be. It is only if you wanted every single card to be in the new format would it be worth buying the new sets. We are certainly not advocating you do that, the upgrade kit will sort you out and everything will be perfectly usable across sets.
Wishing you all the best!
IG
Dividers - key changes confirmation. lots of pictures!
over 1 year ago
– Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 09:16:14 AM
Hey folks, this update focuses on Dividers. Why Dividers? It's important as right now the biggest issue we are having is locking down the library style insert for the Deepsorrow box. To do that Whatz need us to finalise all the cards and all the Dividers that will fit in the box so we can finish the Deepsorrow library insert and get manufacturing the games for you.
Forgive my gorilla mits in this picture but I'm trying to show you a real world 'warts and all' image of the prototype - please note this is locally printed from a professional printer and not final from Whatz but it illustrates something real rather than digital.
These are using the colours we selected originally, you can see here from front to back Dividers for the Loot cards for Deepsorrow (purple), Caves (brown), Sewers (green), Potions & Preps (cyan), Novice Booster 1 (blue/indigo), NB2 (yellow) an NB3 (orange). Held like this they seem fairly distinguishable:
However, this is the perspective that you are typically going to see when looking into the insert. The shades all merge a bit more because when it is printed you lose some of thar richness of colour (what you see on the screen is more vibrant than what is printed because of the RGB vs CMYK effect).
Please forgive the shadows in the next two shots but it does help you show 'real world usage'. When you look at the dividers in the entire library you can see that some of those dividers (purple, orange, yellow) are dead easy to find, the greens blue and cyans are not so easy.
With this in mind here are a number of changes we have made to finalise the Dividers and move back to the insert and then printing the games.
Change 1 This is a subtle one but the colour highlight for the Caves (Brown) did not have enough opacity on it, this will make it easier to find in print form.
Change 2 The Novice Booster 1 colour highlights on screen looked deep blue compared to the purple of Deepsorrow, however when printed it came out more of an indigo. Here are the digital old vs new below. We have swapped out Novice Booster 1 to a sky blue to rectify this issue.
Change 3 The Potions & Preparations colour highlights on screen looked like a cyan compared to the forest green of Sewers, however when printed they both came out fairly similar. Here are the digital old vs new below. We have swapped out Pots & Preps to a pink to rectify this issue.
This gives you a full line up comparison looking like the picture below - In order: Caves, Sewers, Deepsorrow, Pots & Preps, NB1, NB2, NB3)
Change 4 - Resolution on pokers The images we use on the Dividers were originally designed for the cards using a landscape rather than portrait orientation meaning that some of them pieces looked like they did not have sufficient resolution when we we repurposed them on the dividers. We have swapped some of them out for different images (e.g. the Sewers Barriers) or used on a montage (e.g. Deepsorrow Barriers) as shown below:
Change 5 Composition in the space available. For some cards we found a better portrait crop than others and have swapped out to give a better image - for example here you can see the Hatchery being swapped out for the Enigmystic (don't want to give away too many spoilers on the latter).
Change 6 Some of the resolution on the Location cards needed a tweak as we had zoomed in too far on the card and lost the 'wow' we want o give. Here you can see a swap out in the Caves to the Shrine to give you a nicer looking Divider.
Change 7 Some of the cards had lost their 'glow' when moved from card to divider and so a number of these were enhanced to make sure those weapons 'pop' for you.
Change 8 Some of the brightness and tonality on the art needed tweaked. Please see the Gnimshka explorer on the Pots & Preps Weapon Talent below:
And also on the Occupations for the Novice Booster 1 Set where our Celti Druid has been given a bit more exposure to vitamin d than her creators typically manage in a given Scottish Summer:
Change 9 Moving all Foe cards in Caves and Sewers to the native Environment. Before we had experimented with badging some of the Foes in the Weeping Caves and Great Sewers Sets as 'Any' rather than 'Caves' or 'Sewers' respectively. Having tested the game extensively since then I'm not convinced the pay off is worth you having to navigate another tow Foes Dividers in the library and so we are moving all the Foes to their native environment respectively. Please note there will still be differing categories in Deepsorrow (which is multi environment) and in the Booster sets which are 'Any'.
Change 10 The previous prototype looked at the cards for Deepsorrow but was based on all the Scenarios being in the new bookmark format. A number of you of course will however have the original card based Scenario cards hence Dividers have been included for these now (see Novice Booster 1 below):
Change 11 Here are new Reference Cards Dividers you will also need:
Change 12 Brighten the purple dragon - yes I appreciate this sounds like a quest - maybe it should be! What I am actually referring to is the purple surround on the dragon icon - you'll see we have lightened it up a bit to make it easier to see the dragon.
Change 13 We only found two of these pesky mistakes but yeah here is a card with the wrong font, now rectified.
Change 14 can confirm though that we have added in a Shock divider for those that want to use it. The challenge of course is that the shock cards are half poker sized so they do not sit easily within the trenches which are designed for poker cards. I anticipate a number of you will chose to store them in a baggie or similar inventive way. However the option is there for you!
Change 15 - I mentioned this in a previous update whereby the 'detailed filer' is in conflict with the 'practical gamer' by which I mean if we produce a Divider for each set and every card type you can indeed have maximum granularity in your filing. However for Novice Boosters 1 and 2 there is only one Discover card in each. This seems like way too much of a faff to have a divider for each card so we are combining NB1 and NB2 Discovery cards to file under one divider:
Change 16 Likewise we are doing the same with the weapons (one card each) for NB1 and NB2, combining them into one divider:
Change 17 While I love me a Waradger the little thing just does not seem to sit well on the texture behind it so we have swapped it out for the 'Burning Bright' Preparation image instead.
Change 18 This had a fair bit of debate. We have always said that we would anticipate you storing some or none of your Potions & Preps set in the Deepsorrow library but probably not all. However then we looked at what could be done. You can fit all your poker sized cards in whether sleeved or not (hence the Preparation Dividers above). You will also of course be receiving the new Location cards in the Potions & Preps sets which are hard coded with some resource icons. Now these could just be stored beside the original copies in caves and Sewers but we figured some of you may want to keep them separate so we have added in a new divider for you accordingly.
Change 19 Likewise while we do not necessarily recommend you store the Resource cards from Pots & Preps into Deepsorrow we figured some of you might so to accommodate those that want to we have added these dividers. Please note this was never our original intent and if you sleeve all of your cards you will probably find this a bit of a squeeze in the box. My own recommendation continues to be that you keep your resources separate in the Pots & Preps box which is deigned to accommodate the three different resrouce types accordingly.
Change 20 The last change is again to do with 'granular filer vs practical gamer'. The Plot cards (not to be confused with the Clue cards) are identical in all three core slots. There are three in each set and it really does not matter which ones you use. With this in mind the image shows you the previous state but we are proposing to move this to one singular divider with all three colour flashes on it to hold all your Plot cards together - it will be far quicker to find the cards which is the whole point.
OK that was a large update but I wanted to show you all the work that has been going on behind the scenes. We are sharing this with Whatz and now finalising the inserts so we can sure everything fits in that box for you before we start printing.
I was asked in a previous comment what we might have done differently if we could do things with this campaign again. I want to be totally clear, I get we are delayed and you want your games, at some point we need to stop with the improvements and make the game! For me I think the biggest thing I had not anticipated was just the sheer complexity of trying to fit all of these sets into one box in a coherent filing system that you can use by either set or card type.
If we had just made the game and not done the library insert it would have saved us months for sure. I firmly believe you will have a far superior product with the new system but, yes in retrospect would I do it this way again? I'm not sure, I'd certainly want to have physically prototyped it and figured it out before launch, whereas of course we had focussed on the cards and books in the game.
I apologise for the delays and assure you we are working away to get the game made for you.
Wishing you all the very best. IG
Post TabletopScot2024 report, Free promo card, v2 Divider prototype photographs (lots of them)
over 1 year ago
– Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 06:42:44 AM
Hi all,
I said I would get another update out in quick succession after the Con, so here we go!
Tabletop Scotland2024 - Free Promo card added for all A new home for our home convention at the Royal Highland Showground and the biggest one to date. It was so lovely to meet so many of you, thanks to those that stopped by. We showed off the new v2 dividers and everyone seemed really happy with the results and could see why we were taking the time to make it better for you.
We also ran a small promo adventure about collecting items to use the 'Book of Convening'. As is our usual stance we want you all to share in the benefit of any promo card and so will be adding 1x copy of this card to every copy of Deepsorrow (and the Upgrade set) in the final print run. Everyone can use it with the basic sets and you can also use the Camp Action if you have the options Cryptic Collection - Novice Booster 3 Set).
v2 Divider prototype photographs (lots of them) Caveat - my photography skills are not great, I have used my lightbox for the photography and the only editing I have done is to crop pictures as I wanted you to see things 'warts and all'. Apologies for those pictures where the focus may be imperfect or you can see the edge of the lightbox.
A quick reminder - the main reason we are spending time redoing the Inserts and Dividers is to make sure that the Deepsorrow insert can store all of the cards (with the exception of Potions & Preps - which I discuss further down) for the Novice Rank content in one place, library style, rather than storing the double poker cards flat which made them a faff to retrieve.
This photo shows you the v1 divider on the left, an Occupation card from the Weeping Caves in the middle and the v2 divider on the right. The key differences to highlight (which apply throughout the divider pack) are: a) The size and profile of the dividers has changed to facilitate vertical card storage.
b) This is a bit harder to see in this photo because of a shadow (sorry) but there is a colour highlight applied at the top left of the v2 divider (in this case light brown), so that when you are filing things quickly you can simply do it by colour (if you are looking for all the cards from one set). We are fully aware that we need to cater for everyone and that colour blindness is an issue hence why I would point out that this is above and on top of the existing 'file by set icon' system not a replacement for it.
c) Please note the v1 dividers were all deliberately made with the same image per card type simply to save time. We have now applied a relevant image from each set (e.g. Caves Heroes for the Caves Occupation divider).
In the next photo you can see how the card would originally have been stored when it was flat in the box (v1) albeit we probably would have rotated the divider through 90 degrees.
In the next photo you can see the sleeved Occupation card in front of the v2 divider stored vertically (and the brown Caves Set highlight too). We think this is much better.
In this photo I show v1 (top) vs v2 (bottom) for Weeping Caves (Brown) and Great Sewers (Green).
And here are the v1 (top) and v2 (bottom) dividers for the Deepsorrow Set (purple highlight)
Here we see the v1 (top) and v2 (bottom) dividers for Novice Booster 1 (Blue) and Potions & Preps (cyan). Now at this point some of you will be asking why because 'you said you could not fit the Potions & Preps stuff into the set Kev'. I did, and it's true - sort of. Firstly if you don't sleeve your cards you will have loads of space in the box and can easily fit it all in with the caveat that the mini pokers are a bit tricky to store. Secondly if you do sleeve I believe you can still fit it all in but the mini pokers will be tricky to store and harder to get to. Therefore because of the convenience of the insert for Potions & Preps which is designed to separate out the crafting systems what we are saying is you may choose to store none, some, or all of your Potions & Preps cards in the Deepsorrow box but we are giving you the options accordingly.
Moving on to Locations you can see from left to right a v1 divider, a Location card from the Weeping Caves and v2 divider in the new size with Set colour highlight and set relevant picture. Note these cards also have the 'Caves' Environment pennant on the right (so you can find a Caves card in any set quickly as they will not all just be in the Weeping Caves set.) Please note we are still debating whether it is worth having a separate Weeping Caves Set icon and Caves Environment icon or whether to use the same one on left and right but explain that if it is inside a pennant then it refers to Environment type.
The old v1 Location insert for horizontal storage.
The new v2 Location insert for vertical storage - much cleaner!
v1 (top) and v2 (bottom) inserts for Weeping Caves (brown) and Great Sewers (Green) respectively.
v2 inserts for Deepsorrow (purple highlight) for Caves (brown pennant) Sewers (Green pennant) and ruins (purple pennant). Apologies for the blur on this photo folks. I'm also chuffed we can show you some of the finer details on the Location cards blown up using this approach - look at those tables and cable cars!
v1 (top) and v2 (bottom) Location insert for Novice Booster 1 (blue) which can be used for 'Any Environment' (hence the clear pennant). For those not aware this set was made for the original UKGE promo adventure. in the bottom right there is a tiny game of Legends Untold going on which was based on the prototype at the time.
I will move on to the poker sized cards now which all assume a vertical rather than landscape orientation to ensure we can fit them all in the box in two trenches - hero cards on the left and non hero cards on the right.
There are lots of Foes in this game now! We will illustrate the difference in the divider versions using one example here. From left to right v1 Foe divider for Deepsorrow (Sewers Environment), a Deepsorrow Water Serpent Foe (note this is missing the pennant as this prototype predates that improvement to the UI) and a v2 of the same divider.
The old v1 divider behind the Foe - it worked but we could not fit all the cards in the box as easily and you had to read all cards at 90 degrees.
The new v2 divider behind the Foe with portrait storage.
Moving on to Skill Talents we need to make sure we can facilitate the following: Some of you will want to file by set, some of you will want to file by card type, for the truly creative (anarchic?) you may wish to file by one type for the Hero cards and one type for the non Hero cards.
Here you can see the v2 dividers for Skill Talents (left) and Weapon Talents (right) for the Caves, Sewers, Deepsorrow, NB1, Potions and Preps set from top to bottom. Also note the extra Weapon Talents in yellow in NB2 on the right. Importantly these cards do not have art in their own right so we have used illustrative (or occasionally just plain cool) art from the relevant set instead.
This shot shows you the inserts for the Equipment by set (from left to right) Outifts, Kit and Weapons). Sets by top to bottom are Weeping Caves, Great Sewers, Deepsorrow, NB1, NB2, Potions & Preps. Note the cool new art for the Potions & Preps sets - I do love that gastraphetes!
This picture shows from left to right Obstacles, Barriers an Events per set. Note Deepsorrow has Obstacles and Barriers that can be used in both Caves and Sewers so in this case it has the Weeping Caves (rather than Caves Environment) icon in the pennant to the right. Does anybody find this confusing or does it make sense to you? Note Events are for 'Any' Environment in the Deepsorrow and NB2 sets. Also we have no art for Events so have used a relevant image from the applicable set.
Discoveries, Foes, Loot Apologies folks - so many Foes I can't fit all the dividers inside the lightbox! Discoveries by Set and Environment type where applicable. This is an interesting one because some of these have only one card in their classification - so do we just have an 'Expansions' divider for those rather than lots of dividers which takes up less filing space or will that trigger some people who want everything to be 'just so'?
Loot is an interesting one - I would probably store it all in this box, even the Potions & Preps ones just to keep it one place but then keep the half poker resource cards in the Potions & Preps box.
Booby Traps, Plot cards, Persona cards, Campaign, Reference, Clue Does it make sense just to have 1x Plot card divider to cover all the set icons?
Potion & Preps dividers, NB3 dividers and shock You could store all of the Pots & Preps in their own box, or here it is up to you though the small Resource cards may be fiddly. I show the Knowledge and Shock cards in the picture below with the prototype insert (non-plastic) to show you how it can work.
Box, Insert and Dividers Apologies this prototype is now a convention veteran and well travelled so it is starting to look a bit tatty!
This is the current insert (prototype) with the v2 dividers. Hero items are stored portrait style on the left, Double pokers are stored landscape style at the top and non-hero items are stored portrait style on the right. Tokens are stored in the trays(there are four of them) in the middle. The Battlefield (not shown) then sits on top of this and then the books (not shown) on top of the Battlefield.
As you can see it all fits, and you can find everything by set type pretty quickly. Everything shown here is sleeved. You can see there is spare space on the left space so you could store the resources in that space if you chose to but we are not suggesting you should do this.
The left hand side of the box in more detail - that's a lot of options to build your hero with!
The middle of the box in more detail. It is much easier to find the double poker cards now than it was with the v1 dividers.
And the right hand side of the box where we have the Knowledge cards from the Cryptic Collection right at the front. I think it is ok to do this with the knowledge cards and the Shock cards. I would worry people's stuff would get jumbled too much if they did the same with the Resource cards on the left but I'm sure many of you will have your own ideas
Next steps OK so with the convention done and the v2 dividers in hand we are back to getting the plastic insert made to make sure it all works in a mass production version. I will share more in a regular update when I know more. In the meantime thanks for your patience and if you have any thoughts on the v2 dividers please let us know.
Cheers IG
French News, Product Comparison Update - A handy document to see it all in one place, Insert issues
over 1 year ago
– Tue, Sep 03, 2024 at 12:35:23 PM
Hi all,
apologies there has been a lot happening since the last update and we have been prepping for Tabletop Scotland this weekend.
I intend to do a pre-con update (this one) and post-con update (next week) so we can share more news at that point.
French News I have been speaking to David at Bad Boom Games and he tells me that he is hoping to launch the French Language version of Legends Untold very soon - possibly even this month. I don't have more details to share quite yet as David is finalising plans. Please rest assured that anyone who has backed an English Language version or a French Language version of one of our products that wishes to swap it out for the other version will be able to do so assuming that the Bad Boom launch is successful.
Product Comparison Update A number of you have been asking for clarity on the difference between the 1st printing boxes and the enhanced editions. I have been through all of the Updates and our production notes and summarised them together here in one simple comparison file (Name: LU Product Content Comparison) which you can download from our download centre here:
As you will be able to see there are a huge number of moving parts across the product suite. We are by no means infallible, I think I have included everything here but if something has been noted down in error please let me know. Also please note those details remain subject to change - if we need to tweak box sizes and inserts and so forth then we will do so.
Insert issues The insert files we received from Whatz still have a number of issues meaning we can not go to final production quite yet. It's important we get these right otherwise (for those that use the inserts) you won't be able to store your cards and tokens as intended.
We understand this is frustrating but it does take time to get it right.
Here is an example of the proposed insert for the Weeping Caves/Great Sewers EE. This is the file we received from Whatz for approval. It is 90% there but if you look at the dimensions some of them have little yellow tags on them, these are comments from me asking them to widen areas or redesign things where possible. Right now that insert would take the cards, but it would not take the cards in a sleeved format (or not every sleeve type based on our experience first time round). So what you can hopefully see is that we are trying to give the EE inserts that at extra 'oomph' where you can store 3x poker sets and 2x double poker sets plus dice and all your tokens very easily, however the odd mm here and there makes a big difference to the finished product. We are further iterating all the insert proposals and because of wall strength requiements may need to tweak box sizes very slightly to make sure we can deliver what we want you to get. We will report back in due course but this will take a good month or so to fix I believe.
Tabletop Scotland 2024
We are off to Tabletop Scotland this weekend - hopefully we will see some of you there where you an try out our new adventure 'The Book of Conventions'.
In the meantime I wish you all the best and we will give an other update after the convention.