Please note this is a draft format, it remains subject to change and we have a few pages still to finalise (we need to maintain a printable page count so it is not always simple to add or remove just one page). We would really appreciate your feedback so we can finalise this important book, here are a few things I would like to point out:
Page 9 You can see the tweaked way we are dealing with Test Types now by putting them in the Action Bar. This gives two advantages, firstly it keeps it right there and centre with who needs or may do what in the test. Secondly it gives us that real estate back in the title bar to add in more Keywords which will give you more opportunities to interact with things and even further flexibility on your adventures - just like an RPG style game should be. I'll come back to this in a further update.
Also on page 9 you can see the new Critical Success icon being explained for Party Basic Tests - thanks for your help designing the icon! Note this has also been added to the list of other modifiers on page 17 to make things easier to find.
Page 15 Please note the new Card Code and icon system used on the Location cards which helps with gameplay and storage (particularly helpful for those that want to use the new Official Dividers.
We have increased the font size on the Card Code and icons considerably on the Location cards to make them easier read. Have no fear, I am off adventuring into the land of varifocals so I totally get why some of you have asked us to increase font sizes where the cards give us the space to do so.
To explain this from left to right (as it does differ from the original Deepsorrow prototype video we shared):
i) Card Set icon on the left (In this case Deepsorrow) - showing you which set it is native to.
ii) Card Code including the two letters relevant to Deepsorrow (in this case ID), but if this was from the original Weeping Caves set it would be WC (hence it does not matter that they do not have a set icon in the first printing cards).
Note the Location card Codes for Deepsorrow now therefore start as ID-LO01 rather than WC-LO16 which was the original plan. This means of course the WC and GS Card Codes for LO16 and up will be used by the new Enhanced Edition Location cards.
iii) An Environment Icon telling you which Environment this Location card is native to (in this case the Sewers) enabling you to mix around cards from multiple sets that have similar Environment cards and then split them back out by native set as you wish.
Page 22
One other thing I would point out here is the tweaked way of showing how to add Environment icons to Location cards from the various Barriers, Trials etc. Note the blow out of the diagram on this page is deliberate just to show you this point, the card itself does not look like this.
Feedback and other stuff
Ideally we are looking to hear any thoughts you have either here or via email ([email protected]) by the 10th of March 2024 so we can keep moving the publication process along. We will of course work on other files in parallel.
Thanks so much for all the well wishes on the last update they are hugely appreciated!
We hope you like the new style of Rulebook, we think it is a clear improvement on the original A5 format and will hopefully make the game easier for all players (existing and new) to find rules quickly and write some adventures of their own.
Wishing you all the very best!
Cheers
IG
Inserts, progress update
2 months ago
– Thu, Feb 08, 2024 at 03:49:24 AM
Hi folks,
hope everyone is well and finding the time to play some awesome games.
Thanks for the positive feedback on the previous update, we think that the UI on the cards is sorted now and can start finalising for production merges.
This month I wanted to give you an update on inserts. In a previous update we shared a pre-production prototype that we made for Tabletop Scotland so that people could see it/ try it etc. and we could incorporate any feedback accordingly. Now that we are getting close to moving all the files into pre-production I am constantly going through big lists of components per set to try and make sure you get the best products possible (both in terms of gameplay and production/ease of use). We are finally in a position to share pre-final insert designs with you.
I appreciate inserts can be a touchy subject, some of you don't use them, some make or buy bespoke inserts - we're aware of this. We also had a number of you get in touch with us saying how much they appreciated the original inserts and indeed showing us creative ways they were being used as card holders during the game among other things. Finally there is of course the eternal query around accommodating card sleeves. What we are trying to do here is give you something which will benefit the vast majority, the designs should accommodate sleeves or not as you desire. We took feedback from the original Caves and Sewers that despite our best efforts some of you could still not fit your chosen brand of sleeved cards in the inserts and had to chuck them. That was a toughie to hear, so we've added a smidge more space in the recesses this time to try and deal with that issue also.
Lot's of images here so let's dive on in.
Deepsorrow Plan of insert and tray (note front is missing from the insert in this picture). This is very similar to the one we shared with you before and received positive feedback both here and at Tabletop Scotland:
Deepsorrow Plan of the insert tray in detail. The only difference to the one shared before is that we have added a another divider in the top most section. There are four of these trays in each set. So this addition swaps out the space at the top left that was big enough to hold half poker cards and splits it in two. The thinking here (as we showed at the convention) is that you can easily store your Shock deck (the half poker cards) vertically in one of the poker card trenches (shown in buff on the diagram above) in front of the poker cards. You then gain 8 (4x2) large token storage spaces which is a much better outcome for you:
Deepsorrow Elevation of the insert tray. Not an exciting image, but appreciate some people might want to see a fuller set of drawings.
Deepsorrow Birds Eye view of the insert tray. A more useful image, helping you to see the two large and five smaller recesses per tray.
Deepsorrow Plan view of the insert in detail (note front is missing from the insert in this picture). This is the same as before folks.
Deepsorrow Elevation of the Insert shown with front face on. You can see the proposed recesses in front of the poker card trenches to make access easier.
Deepsorrow Birds Eye view of Deepsorrow insert with front face on. And following the same logic you can see the recess to make it easier to take out the double pokers from within the supporting 'H frame' after you remove the token trays.
Caves or Sewers EE Plan of Insert. This is the first time I have shared anything like this with you. We wanted to go back to the drawing board and see what we can do to make the Enhanced Editions really zing in the insert department. Note the Caves and Sewers EE boxes are the same size and the same insert will be used for both. This time round we have gone with three slightly bigger recesses for poker cards (note the comment above about sleeve tightness) shown in buff on the left. In the middle in blue you can see two recesses for double poker cards separated by a channel in pink. We have added a reinforcing separator in the middle of the pink channel to avoid 'content sloshing'. You can use it for dice and dice, dice and tokens, whatever you wish really. Finally in the dark recesses on right you can see 7x recesses for tokens of various sizes.
Caves or Sewers EE Elevation of Insert (note front is missing from the insert in this picture).This image shows the various thumb recesses that we want so you can access the contents easily. Note the Battlefield will sit on top of the container wells, and then the books can sit on top of the battlefield so that you can access stuff with minimal mess.
Caves or Sewers EE Birds Eye view of insert (note front is missing from the insert in this picture). This lets you see the recesses in better detail. For the container recesses to help make token sorting easier we have designed 3x 24mm x 49mm recesses, 3x 29mm x 49mm recesses, 1x 49 x 49mm recess.
Potions & Preps Plan of Insert (note front is missing from the insert in this picture). This is also new, however probably looks pretty familiar! It is basically the original insert from the Caves and Sewers set adapted slightly. We have increased the dimensions to match the slightly bigger box, giving more space for sleeved poker cards in the 3 buff coloured recesses. The dark spaces are perfect for storing half poker cards in during the game should you wish. Depending on how much you want to use the Potions & Preps set you therefore have columns for Recipes, Poker cards (Gems, Herbs etc), and then resources for each of three key crafting elements (Minerals, Reagents, Plants).
Potions & Preps Elevation of insert (note front is missing from the insert in this picture). You can see from the height here that the half pokers (63mm stored upright in portrait fashion or 41mm in landscape fashion) have a nice wee home.
Potions & Preps Birds Eye view of insert (note front is missing from the insert in this picture). The key thing to point out here is the two poker recesses on the right don't have a full half recess in them (but there is a thumb circle) which is different from the original Caves and Sewers. This is because we are not trying to accommodate a set of double pokers in this set and think you would be better having it as shown with the two double poker cards (Occupations) stored above the rule book. In reality I would imagine many of of you may add the Occupation cards from this set into the Deepsorrow double poker recess in any event.
All of the above is subject to change once we see production samples but we believe we are now in suitable place to get these made - another step forward!
Timings
Sadly I have had a number of health issues again at the start of the New Year. The support I have received from Hugh, Scott, Morgan, my family, my friends, and many of you here has been amazing - thankyou! Without boring you with massive details (let's keep it about the game) I am likely to be heading for planned surgery in mid March with recovery thereafter.
For now our focus is getting all the files to Whatz as soon as possible but also in the same high quality state you have come to expect from IG. With the inserts and packaging now sorted it is back to finishing off cards and books.
I will give you a more detailed update on timing in due course but for now I wanted to be open with you that when the files come back from China for eproof checking there may be a period of time that I can not work on IG stuff for a few weeks depending on recovery.
We are trying to make the disruption as minimal as possible and rest assured we intend to get you the very best games that we can make for you as soon as we can folks.
Wishing you all the very best.
Kev, IG
Follow up to card changes opinion request
3 months ago
– Sun, Jan 07, 2024 at 09:24:14 AM
Hi folks,
Happy New Year!
thanks so much for all the responses on the previous update they raised some very useful points and we have tried to accommodate as many as we can.
I will respond to them on a comment by comment basis (grouping where sensible) so that hopefully I capture everything and people don't need to flip between the two updates.
Ryan Bird
All great updates.
I think Impale should be bold.
Also, the >=2 for the Party Basic Test... Would it be better if that information was in the line just above the chart (that says party basic test)? And I cannot help but wonder if that info needs a plus sign in it to indicate 2 above the requirement (like >=+2). Just saying >=2 can be interpreted as a roll of 2 (I know, but some people might interpret it that way). Maybe the plus is not really necessary since it is a rule reminder.
IG Response
Yes good point on the >=+2. We have played with the icon and changed it to incorporate this. We also tweaked the tick on the additional Party member to green.
This is the previously proposed one:
This is the revised icon:
On placement we looked at it but have rejected this suggestion Ryan because 1) It would generate another template for LU again and there are already a lot of those to manage. 2) I can see the argument for sure but all the other mods are in the space to the right of the card for every other card type so we would rather keep it there.
See below on formatting.
Vern Peterson
These are good ideas. I know I tend to be quite picky, but the text on two of the new cards seems to allow for more than one interpretation.
On the Fuldreh"n card
Impale: If your Melee Attack result is a (fail) then you must immediately make another Melee Attack with Disadvantage.
Question - what do I do if I roll a (fail) a second time do I make a third Melee Attack? I am pretty sure that is not the intent.
Lizardkin Hatchery
This is the first Barrier that I have seen that is a Party Basic Test. Since it is a Barrier, I get that the Party can choose to go through the Barrier or may ignore the Barrier and continue on. Saying that 'Each Hero may Test' sounds wrong. I know the 'may' is in reference to it being a Barrier, but if one Hero decides to attempt the 'test', all of the Heroes should have to attempt the test, they no long have the 'may' option. I don't have a better wording, but perhaps there is a better choice. Hopefully the rule book already addresses this situation.
IG Response
Impale - no indeed that is the intent. You need to keep making those Melee Attacks until you free yourself. If you are in a Party hopefully somebody can give you Advantage and help you free yourself, if playing Lonewolf you need to be extra wary. Deepsorrow most definitely ups the difficulty/lethality level from Caves and Sewers but remember there are lots of buffs to find which help you also. We just encourage you to be careful which Foes you fight and which ones you run away from.
The Hatchery - yes this is a very good point. We kicked this about a fair bit and Morgan had the good idea of adding 'Optional' before the test status when used on Barriers. Note we have deliberately not used the same font on the word Optional so that it is really clear to people what is happening.
Here is the revised card:
We will add extra clarity in the rulebook with the following addition: "If the Party wishes to resolve a Barrier that requires a Party Test then all Heroes must make the Test to resolve it."
Michael Boulton
I think all these changes will improve the cards, giving consistency and also making the game easier to understand. One point I would mention is that if you add symbols then it is important to ensure easyitis for new/casual players to find what they mean.
IG Response - thanks, yep totally agree we will add these new icons into the appropriate part of the rulebook.
Adrian Teroux, Spectre376, Khula, Korric, Krododil Dundee
Comments from you all on consistency of formatting of keywords.
IG Response
Some very good points here. And this is where we need to be careful that we don't make all the exsting cards date out of date by applying a new formatting scheme which if we could we would. Specifically what I mean is that yes Keywords should be in bold, no argument there, but we need to be clear that just because some words are in bold on existing cards (look at many of your Talent cards where we highlighted 'Disadvantage' or 'Other Hero' or similar) they are there for emphasis rather being a Keyword like Areten per se.
We think adopting a whole new formatting rule would best wait till Apprentice (if we are successful in that endeavour) but for now want to try and stick to:
italics= flavour text wherever possible. So please note the top most action on the Hatchery Theremustbe... etc should have been in italics before and is now.
bold = A Keyword or a word of importance in the rules when using the cards, something that we want to emphasise so it is clear we are talking about a game term or Keyword proper.
bold italics = We want to use this for Special Abilities (largely on the Foe cards), to make this distinct hence the treatment of Impale below on the card.
Talking of which, as I looked at this I noticed that the new Deepsorrow Foe cards use the same uppercase font on the Title bar as the other card types but that the Foes in the Caves and Sewers did not. If anything this just shows you that LU needs to iterate, we can not think of absolutely everything on day 1, but can always find simple ways to improve. The Foes from now on will be in the uppercase style shown below as will the reprinted Caves and Sewers cards. This is minor stuff though, we do not think they need to be replaced via an upgrade pack.
Nakano
Sounds good ideas. Not sure if non-issue in printed cards, but the green highlight in Areten Shrine and Waterfall Climb looks a bit odd in ”may Test either” / ”One Hero may”.
Regarding Critical Success in Party Tests, wonder if all players could just throw their dice first (it will make game easier of course). Anyway this can be house ruled if we see it better/faster that way.
IG Response
On the green highlight, I had to look properly to see what you mean. Yes it is one of those things that looks more pronounced in the digital version than the print (part of the RGB to CMYK process). This is partly why we have lifted all the lighting levels on the boxes in the reprint. The retailers did say that the boxes could do with being a tad brighter. In terms of the card this is an easy fix - thanks for spotting, the revised card is below, this will flow through onto all cards via the template:
Party Tests. LU is an adventure game and we want to give you that RPG like experience. With that in mind the design intent here is that you do Party Tests one Hero at a time. Gamification wise this means you must use a risk:reward premise to establish the order you do it in - e.g. Hmm my Farmhand is good at climbing he could go first and hopefully get a Critical success so that the Student with vertigo doesn't have to test. Also, my Farmhand did get a lightning bolt in the a$$ from the Student when you Failed in Combat last Turn and I am now on one Health...decisions...decisions... etc.
Thematically we imagine this as a one of the adventurers throwing the rope across and then calling it safe for the next one to cross etc. Part of the inspiration for this came from an old picture I remember in the Dungeoneers Survival Guide where adventurers were roped together. Please note aslo on the point of ropes etc. Kits are really good for Party Tests, everyone gets to use them and they often have a 2x bonus.
That said, LU is your game, your copy and you can of course house rule to do whatever you want just as you say. It will certainly work the way you propose Nakano.
Greg, Justin, Blodhemn and others
Comments on changes and how they impact original sets and updates
IG Response
Please note the changes we propose do not make any of the previous cards redundant. This is important as we do not want to orphan anybody's existing sets.
We want to be able to introduce new things in LU that help improve the game iteratively, and like so many other games (Magic and VTES come to mind to me) this means minor changes to cards but they still work in the same way. This does not mean we can reprint all cards every time we tweak something, that would mean effectively reprinting all the non-hero cards for Caves and Sewers (150 odd cards) and then sending them out to everyone in an upgrade pack which for a tiny company like IG is financially unviable I'm afraid.
However, we totally appreciate we would have no game without you, and we always try our very hardest to keep you on board and go the extra mile to be that friendly publisher that listens. What we propose therefore is that where a change is purely cosmetic (like changing Keywords on a Foe Title card to Uppercase, or changing where it says Table or Staged Test on a card) then we do not reprint - there is no need to.
However where we think something will genuinely improve people's understanding of the rules we want you to benefit from this. With this in mind we think that all of the original Party Basic Tests would benefit from the new icon and where appropriate the revised positioning from the Title Bar into the Action Bar.
At first we thought this was just these cards in Caves:
Box Junction, Chasm, Flooded Tunnel, Island Hop.
And the following Party Basic Tests in the Great Sewers:
Icy Blackness, Sewer Blockage, Water Pit.
However then we noted there is a Party Basic Test on the Lizardkin Lord and then of course on a good number of the Events.
We think we can help you remember stuff more easily here and therefore will add another 23* reprinted cards (covering the Caves and Sewers and Caves EE and GS EE Party Basic Tests) for free to the Update packs accordingly. This is actually quite a big uplift to the Upgrade packs but we think it will help you all learn and enjoy your games more. To clarify, looking at the existing cards right now as I type I would advocate this is 'nice to have' stuff, the existing cards work fine as they are, by no means will those without the Upgrade pack be unable to play their game(s).
*We think it is 23, if we find something else we will let you know of course!
Again, thanks everyone for their feedback and helping to move this forward. I hope you are content that we have moved this in the right direction. We can now adapt the rulebook accordingly and share them with you shortly. While you are looking at the rules we will of course crack on with the other parts of the product so that we can get ready for final assembly and off to Whatz in due course.
Thanks so much for all your help, it helps all of us have a better game to enjoy together.
Cheers
IG
Seasons Greetings! LU Liveplay (recorded) link, we need your opinions on a couple of things please!
4 months ago
– Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 01:45:20 PM
Seasons Greetings to you all!
For those that celebrate it - Merry Christmas I hope you are all having a wee bit of a rest and enjoying the holiday!
LU Liveplay link
After some initial teething problems I joined Monkeys With Fire for a liveplay of LU where we talk about some of the lore and the characters. We then go on to introduce some of the key concepts. A big thanks to those of you who joined us and thanks for all the questions also! Doing the liveplay was a lot of fun, it's exactly how I would introduce the game at a convention. If you want to watch the show it has been recorded and you can watch it here:
User interface tweak - we need your opinions please
We had a rush on after the last update to get the Core Rulebook proofing finished. I'm pleased to say we are done with it now subject to a few things we would like your opinion on please. During the liveplay it became clear to me that there are some tweaks we can make to the card design interface which I think will make them easier for you all to use, particularly for those that are new to the game or have not played in a while. I will walk you through the problems and proposed solutions here:
#1 Commonality of Keyword usage
If you look at the Foe card below you can see other than the tweaks to the left hand side, and the introduction of the Creature number/Breakpoint symbols to the left and right of the Creature number stats (the 1/0, 2/1 etc), this card reads and works the same as all the other Foes you are used to. The only differences are the new Keyword 'Areten' and the Special Ability 'Impale' (which is particularly nasty by the way folks so try and keep a Ranged Weapon to hand for the Engagement Round).
The intent is that both the Special Rule and the Keyword are easy enough to understand. For those new to the game the Areten are a very important mysterious culture in Mor Nadar that you will learn more about in Deepsorrow.
However we want to adopt this use of Keywords across other card types also as it will mean that you have more flexibility with your Heroes and more opportunities to use them. For example if you find an item that lets you gain some form of bonus when used with a card with the Areten (or indeed any Keyword), the game will be more fun and more immersive if you can use that on many different types of cards.
Our proposal for this prior to the liveplay was to drop the word 'Staged Test' from the title bar which would give us the real estate to add a Keyword. The assumption for this was that not all games tell you the type of card they actually are and if you learn the template (in this case the card has the 'belt buckle stages') you would learn and then know that this has to be a Staged Test.
However it became clear to me that during the liveplay this is just something else to learn that I think we can actually help you with but in a different way. In addition this also helps us solve:
#2 Making the Action lines easier to understand
This is something I have been wanting to tidy up for ages but never found a satsfacroy way to do so...until now! To me it seems odd to have the word 'Basic/Staged/Table' in the title bar and then explain again what happens in the action bar (the section immediately below the narrative text in grey).
We bounced this around at our end and it struck us that we could move the Test type to the action bar (freeing up space for Keywords as per #1 above) AND include it in the action bar rather than rely on you learning/knowing the card templates by style alone.
This is best illustrated by the side by side of the 'Current' (in line with 1st printing Caves and Sewers) and 'Proposed' cards below:
If you look to the 'Proposed' card you can see:
Replacing the 'Staged Test' in the title bar with the Keyword 'Areten' in this case.
Reinserting it (rather than deleting it) in the action bar where it reinforces the following key information:
1 - This is a Staged Test
2 - It is for One Hero (not a Party Test)
3 - It is optional, note the word 'may' because it is a Curiosity not an Encounter.
4 - It works off both Solve (Reason) and Identify (Reason).
5 - Note the updated Set Icon and Card Code in the bottom left and the Caves Environment tab in the bottom right.
Here is another example showing how it would work with a Trial that is a Party Table Test.
Note there is no Keyword here but the User Interface remains the same. The action bar tells you in this case:
1 - This is a Table Test
2 - It is for the whole Party (it is a Party Table Test)
3 - It is compulsory (note the word 'must').
4 - It works off both Climb (Brawn) and Swim (Brawn).
5 - Note the updated Set Icon and Card Codes.
6 - Note the replacement of the old (incorrect) Gnimshka Speciality with the correct Subterranean Speciality.
As we are looking at Party Tests this brings me to:
#3 Tidying up the reminder on Critical Successes on a Party Basic Test
An often forgotten rule in Legends Untold that can make a real difference to your success in a game is the rule for a Critical Success on a Party Basic Test. Here is the excerpt from the new Core Rulebook below:
As with the rules above we bounced this around at our end and think adding a simple icon to these cards (where appropriate) is one less rule to remember which again lets you focus more on having your adventure. With this in mind Morgan came up with this icon to use to represent the Critical Success on a Party Basic Test:
And here you can see it in use on the proposed Lizardkin Hatchery card, which also has the 'Lizardkin' Keyword on it:
Please let us know your thoughts on the proposals above - if you like them we can incorporate them now, tweak the cards and finish the book for sharing. We think these are small but incremental improvements, we'd like to hear your thoughts though before we proceed.
Playtesting credits - help us get your name right in the book please!
For everyone who kindly helped with the playtesting please help us get your name right in the credits. If you can email me at: [email protected] with the name you want us to use that would help us immensely.
For now thanks again to everyone for your support and from us at Inspiring Games we hope you have an amazing New Year when it comes to you!
Cheers
IG
LU Live on TV (again) 8pm UK time tonight
5 months ago
– Mon, Dec 04, 2023 at 07:40:06 AM
Hey folks,
the last live play session hosted by Monkeys with Fire ran into some issues and so it is being played again tonight from the start.
I will be joining via voice chat this time around as well to answer any questions anyone has about the game.
