Explore the mysteries of Mor Nadar in this epic coop adventure with branching episodes!
Latest Updates from Our Project:
Version 2 Insert, updated timeline
over 2 years ago
– Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 06:58:00 AM
Hi folks,
first off I want to apologise for the delay in getting this update out to you. I always want to make these updates about the game/world and not about personal circumstances unless it is necessary. However in this case, it is appropriate for you to know that I have been in hospital a few times over the past month which has had an impact on my health and energy levels. I am much better now and thank everyone for the kind wishes. Please note the rest of the team have continued working on the project during my illness.
Version 2 Insert
A key physical component we need to finalise to get the game manufactured is the insert for Deepsorrow. I shared a previous iteration (Version 1) of this back in Update #23. This picture here shows how the cards would fit into the box with dividers in Version 1. Note in particular the horizontal storage of the double poker cards in the top left with the divider tabs pointing towards the inside of the box:
The solution shown above worked as we originally intended but it felt inelegant. Legends Untold is very much a passion project for the team and we really want the Deepsorrow box to give you that 'Library of Novice cards' functionality where we can. Therefore in response to a great suggestion by James Patron Bell we went back to the drawing board and challenged ourselves to make something better for you.
Note I am going to use a lot of pictures to try and illustrate the changes.
Here is a plan view - you can see a tray on the left used for counters, the outline of poker cards to the left and right of the box (don't worry you will see them better in the elevation view) and the insert itself. Please note all the drawings have the very front of the insert removed so you can see through the layer.
This is the elevation view - note the poker cards, sleeves and dividers to the left of the box and double poker card and sleeve to the right of the box. I have colour coordinated this just to show where everything fits, basically the pastel orange poker cards go on trenches to the left and right of the centre section and the double pokers go to the top of the centre section separated by the compartment for the trays.
Here is an isometric view:
And a bespoke view to help you see how it would all fit together.
OK, so those are the detailed drawings, the next step was to make this using foamboard to try it out. Please note these are handcrafted and have been to a convention to show people so they can look a little rough. The finished components will be made using plastic, this real like prototype was made so we could try it out and look for final improvements.
Let's start with the empty box:
Now we add in the outmost section of the insert, you can see the front is added in now. After trying this multiple times we have recessed away two sections at the front to make it easier to access the poker cards at the front of each trench:
This is what it looks like from the front (again please forgive the scratches and pen marks). Note you can see this version increases the height of the box significantly, this is so we can accommodate the double pokers and the books properly (we will get to that in a bit):
Now we add the central H section which forms the internal compartments:
Here is a more top down angle from the rear:
Now we add in the first of the token trays into the front central compartment:
And then stack the second token tray on top. Note the tray was designed with one big compartment at the top to accommodate the boss tokens and potentially some half poker cards. I actually think it may be better to have one more divider in the top as it will accommodate the boss tokens and give you 4x other storage compartments (across the 4 trays):
And then stack the third token tray on top (forgive the jaunty angle on the foamboard please!) Artisanal perhaps? (ahem):
And finally the fourth token tray on top again. You can see some dragon dice and the shock cards in here, as stated above I think the shock cards could probably just live in one of the poker trenches at the front and we give you all more storage compartments. Please note the divider wall in the centre of the H is recessed to permit easier access to the double pokers but will still retain all four trays:
Now we add in the double pokers into their own compartment. This way you can find them far more easily than in the version 1 insert. These just use placeholder dividers, I will come back to the dividers at the end folks:
Now we can place the poker cards for the hero content (weapons, kits, outfits, talents etc) in the trench to the left. Theis picture shows this for all of the sets, I have used a spare piece of foamboard as a spacer. I think this could be a good place to store the shock deck:
And now the poker sized non-hero cards (Foes, Discoveries, Events etc) in the trench to the right:
We now place the Battlefield on top of the supporting walls. Note the top corner is coming apart here, the Foamboard is slightly too big for the components here, this will of course be sorted in the final product:
We now place all of the books on top of the Battlefield:, also note the two punchboards are shown here too, again we will make sure this all fits properly folks:
From the front:
With the punchboards removed, you would now have space store additional books:
With the lid on. Note we will be tweaking this to make a 'shoulder box' (some of you may also know these as 'neck boxes' so that there is a closed fit (unlike the gap shown here) which will be better than a really tall lid:
And finally a more top down view of it all together:
Dividers
The Version 2 will require us to adjust the official dividers for you. Here are the original divider to use with the Version 1 insert, note the poker cards were designed to be stored landscape at this point:
And with the card in front of the divider - this is the same concept which we will be replicating with the adjusted dividers for use with the Version 2 insert:
Here you can see why we now need to make the dividers in portrait format:
And so we use an appropriate sized piece of card for the prototype:
Which if you imagine the divider resized to the piece of card would look something like this:
I can't show this easily in situ but, this shot here shows how the recess in the front wall permits access to the cards in the trench and how the divider would look behind it:
OK so if we look at the double pokers from the original version, they were never made to the correct size but the picture shown here shows how they would have looked, upside down in the top left of the box:
The double poker card would now be stored in a landscape format and vertically (with the divider resized accordingly):
I cut the bottom off this divider (always feels weird cutting a cards product from the factory) so you can see how the double pokers work now, which I think is a far better product for you all to use:
Note in between hospital visits I attended Tabletop Scotland with the demo team and showed this prototype off there. It alongside the product suite in general received positive feedback from everyone I spoke to. A number of people both new to LU and familiar with the game commented on how much fun they found the demo and in particular how the new Battlefield helped make combat feel less abstract.
Updated Timeline
My illness and the insert redesign has cost us some time, but we are not in a bad place. Our intention is to try and have all the files off to Whatz by Halloween. We await to hear when our production slot will be (subject to approval of the Version 2 insert) but we think this will cost us maybe two months in terms of a delay against the initial projection. For this I am sorry and apologise to you all. I will clarify when I know more but would still hope you will have your games in Q1 2024 based on this current delay.
Next Update
I have not forgotten about the proofreading! This update is huge enough, I will send out another update within a few days which will share the files we have available for proofing - again thanks for the kind offers to help on that front - massively appreciated!
That's it for now folks, please let us know what you think of the Version 2 insert, we believe it will give you a far better product to use. If we can nail this element, we can focus on the remaining elements and get the files off to the printer.
Wishing you all the very best.
IG
Free cards added to Novice Booster set 2, a wee bit of world building
over 2 years ago
– Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 07:34:05 AM
Hi all,
The art is back and the cards are built!
I am pleased to show you the results of the recent competition we ran to add some additional Foes to A Trove of Treasures - Novice Booster 2.
Before I do that though let me just explain a few real world publisher reasons why we are doing this.
Firstly when we shared the Novice Booster 2 Set with you we said we would tweak it to add in an additional punchboard and a card or two to use the space inside the box better but also give you more fun with your game.
Secondly as I have been iterating away the box dividers and insert for Deepsorrow it became apparent there was only one Discovery in Novice Booster 2 (The Skinwail Hunter) and it seems kind of crazy to have a card divider for just one Discovery card.
A wee bit of world building
Here is the box for A Trove of Treasures. You can see the Skinwail Hunter on the front cover.
The Skinwail Hunter is a tough warrior for hire from Innis Mannin, an island based people of the Celti culture renowned for their seafaring skills and fearless approach to combat. They lead a hard life, building strong houses and foraging in the sea caves to survive the storms that lash the coast of their large island (to the east of Pen Caergan on the map).
The Mannin are intended to play a greater role in the campaign in future sets. For now it will suffice to know that the Hunters make their living dealing with the horrors that lurk in the sea beyond the straits to the north of Dun Mordhain.
Note the Skinwail Hunter is not alone on her travels, that would be a lonely and dangerous career choice (even by Legends Untold standards), she is accompanied by her white haired apprentice, who has saved her life on many occasions.
The Skinwails will be revealed at a later stage we hope! For now however we think having just the one card behind that divider is a bit daft so we have added in a new Encounter for you to deal with - here is a brand new card the Serpent's Lair which will be included in this set for free:
For those that are really good at dealing with snakes there is a chance to draw from the Treasure Deck here.
As part of the project to design new Foes we got some ideas from you - thanks for those! We have tried to incorporate them where we can, whilst also ensuring the lore remains intact and faces off to the grand campaign.
Our first new Foe Card is a shout out to our Lich obsessed Peter 'Apple Head' Andersson. For those that have been with us since the start you may remember that the Liches in Mor Nadar are known by the Celti Peoples as the Dia Fir (God-Men) and are truly ancient by the standards of the current inhabitants of Mor Nadar. It is our hope that in the Ancient Crypts section of the planned Apprentice sets we can share more of the Dia Fir (you would need to level up a few more times to stand a chance against them). If you look at this video I did way back in the first campaign, from around the 4 minute mark you can see three different types of undead described conceptually, with the Dia Fir shown in more detail:
For now though we thought is might be cool to share a Dia Fir Servant that had been buried with its master - who knows when it will surface! In essence we are giving you a bit of 'lichyness' with your new booster set - good luck to all those low Will heroes out there!
Next up we have another monster from the sewers. Nobody is entirely sure how these creatures arrived there. Some say they are sacred pets from the Mayteca peoples that escaped the homes of the ambassadors in Dun Mordhain and fled to the sewers below. Others believe that just like the water horses of the lakes and lochs all around the Cold Lands they have been their forever. Whatever you believe a big thank you to Martina Ottens for the suggestion. Note (like all these cards) we need to play the Albigator a few more times, at 3 Health and 2 Wounds with the Death Roll it may just be a bit too brutal, but saying that, we do always recommend that you need to run away now and again in Legends Untold...
Third up I would like to thank Vern 'Targanth' for his Stalag-Fight suggestion. Like so many of you Vern has always been incredibly supportive of the Legends Untold project and we wanted to find a way of making his creature design work alongside our existing Stalag-Ent card that sits in Deepsorrow. To this end we have created a high Alertness value Creature that does extra Damage in the Engagement Round to represent a deadly surprise attack from what you thought was just a harmless wee bunny... (ahem sorry stalagmite). We are pleased to introduce Targanth's Terror into the lore of Mor Nadar:
Finally a personal favourite of Kev's, created when we were writing the background for the Initiate Occupation. Deep beneath Firesorrow Temple there are caves full of water that team with life in the warm habitat. The tough shells of the little cowries mean they have very few predators but there is one, the Cowrie Hunter, armed with long poisonous tentacles and a vicious tongue it feasts on the little snails and anything else that enters its lair. Sometimes though an Initiate will be brave enough to undertake an initiation test and fight such a foe to recover some of those shells. If they do so and present their findings to the Masters they are rewarded with their cowrie bracelet charm which they can keep forever and use to channel their energy when they need it most.
Please note - I want to get this update out to you all now but have just noticed this Foe has the Sewer Environment tag in the bottom right - this will be changed to a Cave one of course.
I want to give a shout out to our amazing creature artist Daniel for the job he did on these 5 pieces.
In summary folks we will add these five cards for free to every copy of A Trove of Treasures - Novice Booster 2 alongside the punchboard that is required for the various Creature tokens.
We hope you like the new cards!
What's next?
In terms of the rest of the project we are working away on the Deepsorrow insert, awaiting the art for the final few Location cards that we are adding to the Enhanced Edition, and assembling everything for proofing. If anyone is willing to volunteer to read a few pages of some of the books please do let us know, many eyes make the job much quicker and will help up improve the product for everyone.
Best wishes to you all.
Cheers
IG
BackerKit action needed now, Dividers, Box storage, Booster cards, Foes
almost 3 years ago
– Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 08:51:10 AM
Hi folks,
BackerKit Survey- locking and chargin this weekend
I sent a final reminder out today, please make any changes you want to now. We will be locking orders and charging cards over the weekend.
Currently there are just over 200 of you who will not be able to receive their rewards.
Dividers
I have now had a chance to use the dividers properly and attach lots of photographs for you all to see - please note everything remains subject to change, we had to cut a few corners to get things printed for UKGE!
Shrink wrapped dividers for the poker sized cards:
Barriers and Obstacles:
A reminder on how to read from top left: Set icon, Deck icon, Card Type, Environment
So in this case from top to bottom the dividers are for filing Deepsorrow Sewer Environment cards, Deespsorrow Caves Environment cards, Great Sewers cards, Weeping Caves cards.
Events and Personas - top left Set icon is for Novice Booster 2 - A Trove of Treasures:
Plot, Campaign, and Clue Cards:
Foes and Discoveries:
Topmost Set Icon is Novice Booster 1. Note we have been debating having some Great Sewers and Weeping Caves Foes as 'Any' rather than for Sewers and Caves. It sounded good on paper but when you get into the filing of it, it is arguably a bit of a faff. Still to be decided this one.
Note the Deepsorrow Environment icon on the third Foe divider from top - for the 'purple cards' I mentioned during the campaign.
I could not reduce the light glare in the above shot - here is a better look at the Foes Dividers:
And the Discoveries:
Booby Traps and Items - note Booby Traps and Items are deliberately 'use anywhere' to give you much more variety. The Set icons for Items from top to bottom are:
A Cryptic Collection - Novice Booster 3
A Trove of treasures - Novice Booster 2
Alchemist, Druid & Treasure - Novice Booster 1
Potions & Preparations
followed by Deepsorrow, Sewers, and Caves
Outfits and Kits:
Weapons, Reference and Shock:
Skill Talents and Weapon Talents:
Resources (from Potions & Preps) and the Flask from A Cryptic Collection - note I think this card is probably unnecessary and can be filed with the potions themselves:
Preparations and Potions from the Cryptic Collection, Pots & Preps and NB1 Set (the Alchemy part):
The Double Pokers (Locations and Occupations - also there will need to be ones for Reference and Episodes). Note these will need to be redesigned, as I mentioned in a previous update they do not quite do what they need to:
This is me at the start of the process, swapping out all the placeholder coloured plastic ones for the new official dividers:
And an hour or so later - this is what is looks like with all the poker Dividers replaced:
It is of course up to you how you file the cards, we have given you the flexibility to file in multiple ways. At the moment this is the way I find it easiest to find everything really quickly (with Pots & Preps stored separately in it's own box):
Here's a view from a different angle. A couple of points I would make after seeing the prototype:
Some of the classifications are tiny, when there are only one or two cards I think combining may be less of a faff.
It is indeed very easy to swap out categories by set or type just as we hoped.
I personally find this far easier to find cards than without.
I have done this on a sleeved basis, as I predicted during the Campaign it all fits except Pots & Preps. If these cards were unsleeved you would probably fit the Pots & Preps cards in too but because of the card sizes in that set I would not recommend it.
We still have the issue around the double pokers to solve - the current solution works but is not optimal. I am working with Whatz to see what if anything can be done to improve this.
The space that is not being take up by the cards and dividers is for counters and dice.
The Battlefield board being placed on top with the rules on top of the dividers works but needs some form of support on the left hand side
This picture here shows the Battlefield balancing on those cards:
However you can see I have offset the weight on the books to the right to make it balance because the dividers act as an offcentre 'fulcrum' which needs some form of support on the left to balance it out.
In summary - I am really happy with the Dividers and think they will enhance the experience for many of you, especially if you have multiple sets. However there is still a wee bit more design work to go on the box to make it all fit and stable - we will come back to this!
Booster Set cards:
Note this is the first time I have seen these myself, apart from a quick look at the Cryptic Collection cards they were still mostly kept in shrink at UKGE. These all need to be proofed and have card codes updated with final set icons. We ran out of time to do this for UKGE but wanted to show people what they were getting.
This is part 1 of a Trove of Treasures, Novice Booster 2 - note the new Weapons and the additional Weapon Talents for all the existing ones. Please note we are revising the Studded Cestus to something else, it is very hard to make it work with the sheer variety of Talents that we make available. It will be replaced by something like the 'Dirk' in due course, we are still finalising - but we want it to work with the knife based talents you can see above and the Cestus is not quite delivering what we want from it.
Part 2 of this set- note all the 'armour' type options you can now find - greaves, helms, shields. Thank you for helping us to unlock all of this!
The cards from the Cryptic Collection - Novice Booster 3.
In the left - The Strange Device card which seeds a random Preparation for you to identify and use.
On the right - The Unusual Flask card which seeds a random Potion for you to identify and use.
In the middle and the bottom - the Tomes leading to the Knowledge cards for the three sets (I have turned half of them over so you can see the reverses. I'd like to give a shout out to our graphic designer Morgan for making these look like little books!
When we briefly showed people these cards at UKGE they proved to be very popular, the idea of being able to craft Potions but also to be able to find random unknown bottles etc was a big hit.
Foes
A big thanks to Vern for his contribution on the Foes on the last Update - we will be in touch to accommodate something like this. Note there is already a Foe in the Deepsorrow set called Stalag Ent, so it is unlikely we will use 'Stalag-Fight' but I am sure we can capture the concept and work with Vern to come up with something cool.
That's it for now - I hope all the photographs gives everybody a clear picture of what's happening,
Best wishes to you all!
Cheers
IG
Post UKGE Update, videos, Apothecary primer, help design a new card!
almost 3 years ago
– Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 07:21:32 AM
Hi folks,
post UKGE update
we are back from UKGE and wanted to say a massive thank you to everyone who dropped by! It was so lovely to see so many faces for the first time in five years. It was particularly nice to catch up with some of you whom we demoed to way back in 2016 with our tiny little booth and handcut cards.
Before I go any further Hugh and I would also like to extend a special thanks to the IG demo team: Eoghann, Eric, Mark, Chris and Adam for coming to the show and running numerous demos all through the weekend at the stand.
Here is an intro video from Kirsty and Phil over at Ludus Vulpes from the Press Preview on the Thursday evening:
The stand was busy all weekend and we received the following feedback from the Demos:
How much did you enjoy the game?
Boring: 0%
Okay: 0%
Fun: 53%
Great: 47%
How complex was the game to understand?
Very simple: 8%
Straightforward: 69%
Complicated: 23%
Too complex: 0%
Did the game's theme/background come through?
Bland: 0%
Okay: 9%
Involving: 91%
Deep: 0%
What do you think of the game mechanics?
Too simple: 0%
About right: 85%
Complex: 15%
Too complex: 0%
Do you think the new Deepsorrow concepts make the game better?
No: 0%
Hard to Say: 83%
Yes: 7%
Very much: 7%
Verbatims:
'Really enjoyed the demo. Great game, thoroughly enjoyed it all.'
'Really enjoyed the demo game. Very interesting gameplay.'
'Really good concept, roleplaying game which is quick and simple to grasp. Very enjoyable.'
'Enjoyed the demo game so much I bought a copy.'
'Great demo!'
'Great improvement on an already enjoyable game!'
'So much fun to play.'
Feedback from the demo team:
Other than a couple of ex demo copies we had for sale people were most disappointed that they could not purchase the game on the day.
Crafting was a big hit, everyone really liked being able to harvest materials and then craft recipes during the game.
People liked the new Treasure deck, being able to find significantly more loot in an adventure was popular.
Note the population of the demo participants was completely random, some had played LU before some had not. We can only treat the feedback for what it is, but it was certainly positive and compares very favourably with previous feedback we have received at UKGE. The demo did not include the clues system but when we showed people how they worked with the Deepsorrow campaign book afterwards people then twigged that that was how they would learn more about Mor Nadar.
And finally here is a short video from Ludus Vulpes playing through the game with Kev where you can see some of the new cards being used:
Apologies, the demo tables were frantic and we had misplaced some tokens by this stage!
Battlefield and secondary Weapons
One of our backers asked me about using secondary weapons on the Discord channel - I have made a video here, integrating it with the new Battlefield.
Apothecary Primer
Rather than a promo card we gave away an Apothecary primer at UKGE so that people who owned the game could take it home, cut it out and try out being an Apothecary with their existing sets. If you want to try this for yourself you can download it from our website here:
I have asked the admins at BGG to approve this document as a file upload there too and will share the link when that happens.
NewFreecontent in NB2 -Help design a new card!
We took on board the feedback from the last update that there appeared to be a little bit too much empty space in the Novice Booster 2 box. We always listen to you, however as had been suggested at the time there are two parts to the equation, the second being how this would work at retail. We spoke to two huge distributors at UKGE who both confirmed that tuck boxes are not the way to go with this product for retail.
Therefore we are going to do what we think is the right thing for both sides here - we will retain the box size as is but add more free content for you to use which will also be an appropriate use of the air space inside. We are going to introduce some new Foes to NB2, this will mean further poker cards and also a small punchboard the same as there is for Novice Booster 1) which will give you further creature tokens to use.
We already have some ideas in mind, however building a world together is part of the ethos of the LU project, therefore we are asking for your ideas to help design a Foe. Please add your concepts in the comments below and people can +1 and add their own accordingly. We will need to make any final decisions based on suitability for both lore and publishing constraints but at the moment we want you to have some fun with this! Design parameters for the Foe are as follows:
Must be usable in either a Caves or Sewers setting.
Ideally will use one of the following Conditions (Fear, Fire, Poison - deliberately not Shock as that is only in the Deepsorrow box). Remember Conditions work both ways in the revised rules so Foes can cause or be vulnerable to these Conditions.
Remember Caves and Sewers is Novice Rank difficulty and Deepsorrow is akin to Novice Rank approaching Apprentice. So anything which is hugely difficult to survive against is unlikely to be usable at this juncture.
Confirmation on BackerKit funds charging
We held off so that we could demo at UKGE and get a clearer picture on production volumes. I can now confirm we intend to collect funds via BackerKit on 30 June.
We are at 83% complete on the BackerKit. There are approximately 200 of you who have not completed the survey, please note we will not be able to ship you any rewards unless this is completed.
That's it for now folks. In the next update I will try and show some detail behind all the new prototypes we received for UKGE.
Wishing you all the best!
Cheers
IG
Prototype shots - lots of photographs!
almost 3 years ago
– Thu, May 25, 2023 at 04:10:24 AM
Hi folks,
I'm very excited to share lots of photos of the prototypes that just arrived from the manufacturer.!
Please note these prototypes were pulled together so we could share them with you and the wider audience at UKGE. These are prototypes, incomplete, and subject to change. That being said it is very exciting to see the updated Legends Untold family of products together for the first time!
So here we go - this is the three core sets, the four expansions, and the two dice sets together.
And here you can see the new Enhanced Edition for the Weeping Caves besides Kev's (much played) copy from the original printing.
Our baby, growing up!
A shot beside the new Official Card Dividers - note the double poker dividers seem a bit too tall and will not be quite as square.
Note the above shots were all set on black cloth as we were trying out various stand mock ups for UKGE. I have taken some detail product shots in the lightbox for you below. There are a couple where the focus could be a bit better. Please forgive me as we get ready for UKGE!
Novice Booster Set 1
Front of box
Back of box (note white space will be filled with all the legal things for publication).
Inside the box
A Trove of Treasures - Novice Booster Set 2
Front of box
Back of box
Inside the box
A Cryptic Collection - Novice Booster Set 3
Front of box (note the LU logo will have better placement on the final product, this was a rushed proof to ensure delivery for UKGE).
Back of box
Inside the box
The three Booster Sets together
Front of boxes
Bookend shot (left of box)
Bookend shot (right of box)
Official Card Dividers
Great Sewers Enhanced Edition
Please note the new box in landscape format only just fits inside my lightbox. I have not brushed out the edges of the lightbox as I wanted you to see it 'warts and all'.
Front of box
Back of Box
Box with punchboards on top
And then the books (not the new Campaign Guide is A4, this is the old A5 one shown here)
And then the cards on top
Here is a closer look at the Sewers punchboard obverse (note the Combat tokens for the Creatures and the Heroes). Particularly pleased to see the Black Pudding on there :D
And the reverse of that punchboard (now the new ghost grey Barrels to show you have exhausted a Search Zone more easily)
And the Battlefield
Notes on the Battlefield:
1) Previously this component was referred to as the Combat Aid. We have found as we work through the Indexed Glossary that we use 'Combat' quite a bit already and want to simplify terminology where we can. 'Combat,' 'Combat Round' make sense - Combat Aid can easily be something else - hence 'Battlefield'.
2) Playing the game over and over again as we work towards final product it became clear to me that flipping the Battlefield over to move from Ranged Foe to Melee Fee is unnecessary. Now that we have increased the size of this component to make it almost box sized (to ensure we can separate books from cards in Deepsorrow) the extra real estate enables us to just have it all on one side. You just place the Foe card to the left (Ranged Foe) or right (Melee Foe) in the white slot shown above accordingly.
This should lead to a quicker gameplay experience and less chance of knocking stuff all over the place we hope.
That's it for now, you can see things are coming together. I will post some shots of the cards in due course (after UKGE).
We will be at Stand 1-968 at UKGE next week. If you are coming please stop by and say hi!